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[momitsnowme]

Thoughts?

[Joe]

I'm finding it difficult to wrap my head around Louis CK and the interconnectedness of the other sexual aggressions.  The habitual actions of all the cases are really upsetting. It reminds me of people that I've met that are charming, treat people as poorly as they can get away with, and then turn the charm back on to gaslight the people with the complaints. It makes me wonder what else Louis CK might do to manipulate his circle of influence to his gain regardless of the value or loss of value for those he actively manipulates.

ack. i'm late for work. I have more thoughts on responsibility of sexuality/hormones as a non-narcissist, because this isn't just about blaming one bad apple and calling it a day.

[BlakeK]

2017. The year we learned that everyone sucks. The end of 2016 has us all suspecting as much but 2017 really hit the point home.

I've always thought I was was one of "the good ones" in regards to how I treat and view women but during the past couple of years I've come to the conclusion that I engaged in behaviors that may have been harmful to women when I was younger and always filed it under being "playful". I'd like to make a separate thread about this because it opens a can of worms. I think it's a conversation worth having if others want to talk

[manmagic]

Now Jesse from Brand new. Just got Science Fiction in the mail too. That makes three albums I have purchased this year and later regretted once past actions of the creator have come to light.

Every day it's someone new it seems. While there are different levels to how shitty people are Weinsteins/Cosby obviously worse then CK's and Kevin Spacey is somewhere in the middle, but it doesn't make what CK did any less shitty.

[momitsnowme]

Blake, I think that's a really courageous and important reflection to have done and to share. You might like Marc Maron's latest wtf episode

[BlakeK]

Blake, I think that's a really courageous and important reflection to have done and to share. You might like Marc Maron's latest wtf episode

Thanks. I'll have to give it a listen. I don't think I'm courageous at all, I'm actually afraid to talk about it because I don't want to say the wrong thing and have others think I'm a bad person. I'll just say that I behaved with certain women differently when I was younger. I think I chalked it up to it being as issue of closeness and knowing someone well but I'm not sure that's the whole story. Different people do have different boundaries but I feel like I was making assumptions about other people's  boundaries and pushing boundaries rather than starting from a position of being respectful and careful not to push boundaries. I thought it was funny when I was younger to push boundaries with both male and female friends and while I wasn't doing certain things for sexual gratification I'm sure there were people who were made uncomfortable by it. The behaviors I'm talking about are butt slapping/grabbing and similar behaviors. I feel like the fact that I would push boundaries with some and not others speaks to how men often have different standards for different women and this, I'm sure, is based on power or perceived power and status.. I wasn't thinking about that at the time but it's something I became aware of after I got older and stopped partying (that's usually but not always the context of the above mentioned behaviors). I've always been pretty timid when it comes to talking to women, especially if I'm interested in them romantically. I have always put forth an effort to make sure that consent was clear for sex and don't think I have anything to be ashamed of when it comes to that. It's the things that I would call "little things" that I'm now aware might not be so little and may have been viewed as sexual by others while not by me. That wasn't my call to make and I wish I would have been more mature, considerate, etc.

[Courtney]

Fucking finally.

[momitsnowme]

I thought this article was amazing
https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2017/11/20/art-monstrous-men/

[BlakeK]

I thought this article was amazing
https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2017/11/20/art-monstrous-men/

Good stuff

[pronetoaccidents]

with this rapid and relentless succession of people coming out i'm sad to say i'm more surprised if someone turns out to be a decent human being

[momitsnowme]

Isn't it kind f weird how the stuff about Chris came out right before this started happening on a huge scale? I feel like it shows how movements are kind of inevitable or something...like growing out of the wave of society and not spurred by one individual. I don't know

[pronetoaccidents]

Isn't it kind f weird how the stuff about Chris came out right before this started happening on a huge scale? I feel like it shows how movements are kind of inevitable or something...like growing out of the wave of society and not spurred by one individual. I don't know

I was thinking the exact same thing the other day. It was weird timing. I guess the flood gates couldnt hold

[momitsnowme]

Right!

[BlakeK]

Isn't it kind f weird how the stuff about Chris came out right before this started happening on a huge scale? I feel like it shows how movements are kind of inevitable or something...like growing out of the wave of society and not spurred by one individual. I don't know

I was thinking the exact same thing the other day. It was weird timing. I guess the flood gates couldnt hold

It is really weird how it all happened. It seems like the Harvey Weinstein stuff spurred the movement towards outing people for doing terrible things to women. What's also weird to me is that this kind of stuff has been talked about and commented on for decades and therefore it shouldn't be that big of a supririse. I think for whatever reason people thought the Mad Men style of interacting with females was completely over. Like racism (at least prior to 2016 and the rise of Trump) it seems to have become more covert which made it difficult to know how rampant it is. It's really sad and disappointing. I didn't think it was this bad and some of the people who have beeen accused is shocking to me.

[pronetoaccidents]

okay so i wanted some genuine opinions on this one.. I've been thinking about everything that has come to light and the repulsion i feel towards the world that seems almost hopeless in its wretchedness (sorry to sound almost old testament like) and it's made me think about myself. I always try to look at myself. I'm going to admit things that I'm not proud of. Things I didn't think much about at the time because heavy drug use was a factor (and i don't say this to even go fishing for an iota of an excuse, i only mention it because all it did was keep me from looking at myself after the fact.) I'm learning a lot about consent, I'm learning a lot about a lot of things. and all that comes to mind for myself are these random instances.. being much younger, like 12, 13 when I first became interested in bodily pleasure, etc, you know it, you've all been thru it. however, I remember keeping my ears open to whomever was considered the "slut" at the time (and i cringe even thinking about this or talking like this because i'm referring to a child now when i describe this, even though we were the same age at the time) and I would actively seek them out knowing they were very easy. now I can see that there's a strong chance that if they were promiscuous at that age there's a very strong chance that they either had cripplingly low self esteem and thought that's what it would take for a guy, someone, anyone to like them and/or there was sexual abuse?

is it wrong for me to assume that those were the only two options? I don't know. I'm willing to admit I'm far from an expert and I'm only posting this and asking because I always try to learn. to strive to be a better individual in the moment and foreseeable future.

of course I never forced myself on them, only sought out those that I knew would be almost tragically easy.

I don't know. it's just on my mind. this might be totally irrelevant but when I think about it, if someone wasn't interested, and didn't NOT consent explicitly, perhaps were too embarrassed or ashamed or for whatever reason didn't verbalize that, does it diminish anything?

i dunno. the world is sad and confusing and I'm trying to learn more and more each day.

[Aaron]

Isn't it kind f weird how the stuff about Chris came out right before this started happening on a huge scale? I feel like it shows how movements are kind of inevitable or something...like growing out of the wave of society and not spurred by one individual. I don't know

Yeah, I was thinking about that too.  Just shows that punks are always ahead of the times.  For better or worse, I think a lot of millennial feminism and language around safe space, etc was probably hugely  influenced by punk/diy culture.  I mean in the mid-late 2000s we were using those concepts and terms way before they became pretty mainstream.