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[kw]

seriously though.... holy shit.....

you voting for hillary cause trump is a nightmare?
you voting for trump cause you want pure chaos and are secretly racist?
you voting green party / libertarian / third party cause you are super idealistic?
you not voting at all?

[rory]

Hi kw

I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion that

are you looking for a roommate? I am not too far from Canada please help me find housing

[BlakeK]

We've been talking about this for a while in this thread http://pix.hijinx.nu/index.php?topic=507.0

I am voting for Hillary and pretending like I didn't vote afterwards. I'm just so scared of Trump being President that staying home or voting for Jill Stein would make me feel like shit if Trump wins and it was because people like me stayed home or voted for someone without a chance.

I hate Hillary Clinton so much and hate that I have to choose between her and Donald fucking Trump. I don't know what is wrong with people. I don't know anyone who is excited about voting for Hillary or is even supportive of her.

[lindsey]

really the only motivation at this point is to protect every minority that would have their lives absolutely ravaged by a trump presidency. then again maybe all the rest of us will finally revolt against the rich cishet white dudes once and for all. i haven't read anything compelling enough for me to want to risk having trump elected by doing anything other than voting for clinton, which is infuriating. let's just acknowledge from both sides that this shit just isn't working and burn it all down.

like i am definitely in the "super idealistic" camp and probably have some of the most radical personal politics of anyone my age (am actually no joke still an anarchist, haaay), i'm just not so blinded by privilege that my "ideals" are more important than a more subjucated human's actual safety. a trump presidency would be SO FUCKING UNSAFE for WAY more people than a Clinton presidency.

although i also would be down for the west coast to secede from the union either way, living in liberal as fuck orgeon is the only thing making me feel remotely safe right now

[lindsey]

tl;dr- basically this

[BlakeK]

Do you think that Hillary actually cares about minorities or inequality in this country? I don't think that she cares about anything but gaining prestige, power, and money. I think she is no better than Trump in terms of what she wants out of being President. I do think that she will at least pretend to care about other things and will implement policies that are less harmful due to the fact that doing so will help her achieve the aforementioned goals.

[Anna Karina]

Do you think that Hillary actually cares about minorities or inequality in this country? I don't think that she cares about anything but gaining prestige, power, and money.

If you think this, you're ignoring her extensive history with equal rights.

I definitely have problems with Hillary (particularly how she handles foreign policy) but painting it as though she only cares about the 1% is manufactured by news outlets like Fox. Would Bernie have been better? Sure, but that doesn't cancel out her accomplishments.

[lindsey]

"Actually cares" is literally 100% irrelevant at this point

[lindsey]

Like the "not authentic" rhetoric is such fucking bullshit. No politician is authentic! I have never understood why people don't WANT someone who is educated, studied, rehearsed, experienced, etc. Being candid does not override being ignorant as fuck. I can't help but speculate that it is steeped in sexism because men in power don't often seem to be criticized for this, despite presenting the exact same qualities. With the exception of maybe John Kerry. Maybe it's confirmation bias on my part but I'm so fucking over it.

[BlakeK]

If we can talk about authenticity, Trump is less authentic in my opinion because he really does not stand for anything. His first

Do you think that Hillary actually cares about minorities or inequality in this country? I don't think that she cares about anything but gaining prestige, power, and money.

If you think this, you're ignoring her extensive history with equal rights.

I definitely have problems with Hillary (particularly how she handles foreign policy) but painting it as though she only cares about the 1% is manufactured by news outlets like Fox. Would Bernie have been better? Sure, but that doesn't cancel out her accomplishments.

I'm not saying that Hillary only cares about the one percent. I dont know who she cares about really. Maybe she does care about women's issues and rights, minorities, etc. I just have a hard time believing that she believes a lot of what she says and that's what I'm talking about with authenticity. Do they actually care (sorry Lindsey) about or believe in the things that they are talking about or are they just saying what they think people want to hear?

I think it's hard to go from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. I feel like he is passionate and truly believes in what he is doing. I had the same feeling about Obama in '08. I think the reason Obama did so well as he did come across as caring deeply about the issues that he was talking about. He was the first major presidential candidate to come off that way in quite a while.

I think Trump is the epitome of inauthenticity due to the fact that he will change his opinion about something in a second to get applause or praise from whoever it is he's talking about at the time.

It's completely likely that I'm overreacting and am just really disappointed in Bernie losing the way he did especially with all we've learned during the past week about the DNC.

My question about whether or not Hillary cares about women and minorities was not a rhetorical question. I think what I was trying to say is that if a person is just saying things and doesn't really care about the issues, they are less likely to actually do things to help. I think you are right in that as long as she is doing things to help, I believe that "actually caring" is irrelevant.

I think I'm just burned out on politics. I'm sorry for the ranting and raving.

[kw]

Hi kw

I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion that

are you looking for a roommate? I am not too far from Canada please help me find housing

i got u bb boy. i live in an amazing town with really cheap rent and a decent ability to work minimally and live well. we're gonna be hiring at my business so i can give ya a rad vegan punx job, we have universal health care and haven't had to worry about trans/queer rights in quite some time. obviously its never gonna be perfect, but legal gay marriage happened for us in the 90s and the general concensus in this country is use whatever washroom corresponds with you, more power to you.

come to st. catharines!

[rory]

Hi kw

I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion that

are you looking for a roommate? I am not too far from Canada please help me find housing

i got u bb boy. i live in an amazing town with really cheap rent and a decent ability to work minimally and live well. we're gonna be hiring at my business so i can give ya a rad vegan punx job, we have universal health care and haven't had to worry about trans/queer rights in quite some time. obviously its never gonna be perfect, but legal gay marriage happened for us in the 90s and the general concensus in this country is use whatever washroom corresponds with you, more power to you.

come to st. catharines!

I'm literally crying thinking about how beautiful this is.

[manmagic]

I think I'm just burned out on politics.

[lindsey]

Do they actually care (sorry Lindsey) about or believe in the things that they are talking about or are they just saying what they think people want to hear?

...

My question about whether or not Hillary cares about women and minorities was not a rhetorical question. I think what I was trying to say is that if a person is just saying things and doesn't really care about the issues, they are less likely to actually do things to help. I think you are right in that as long as she is doing things to help, I believe that "actually caring" is irrelevant.

My initial reaction to the question "are they just saying what they think people want to hear?" is... that is the point of democracy? Do I think she's saying whatever she wants to get elected and then is going to do whatever the fuck she wants? Maybe. That is what Obama did. To me she represents maintaining the status quo, which, while not exciting and progressive, is the only alternative to AMERICAN HITLER which is just not an option at all. But I think she does have a track record of trying to help in a progressive way, as much as populist candidates can. Unfortunately a step to the progressive left isn't a REAL option. It's either "maintain status quo" or "ruin america for anyone who isn't a wealthy white male"

[skateandannoy]

really the only motivation at this point is to protect every minority that would have their lives absolutely ravaged by a trump presidency. then again maybe all the rest of us will finally revolt against the rich cishet white dudes once and for all. i haven't read anything compelling enough for me to want to risk having trump elected by doing anything other than voting for clinton, which is infuriating. let's just acknowledge from both sides that this shit just isn't working and burn it all down.

like i am definitely in the "super idealistic" camp and probably have some of the most radical personal politics of anyone my age (am actually no joke still an anarchist, haaay), i'm just not so blinded by privilege that my "ideals" are more important than a more subjucated human's actual safety. a trump presidency would be SO FUCKING UNSAFE for WAY more people than a Clinton presidency.

although i also would be down for the west coast to secede from the union either way, living in liberal as fuck orgeon is the only thing making me feel remotely safe right now

Do they actually care (sorry Lindsey) about or believe in the things that they are talking about or are they just saying what they think people want to hear?

...

My question about whether or not Hillary cares about women and minorities was not a rhetorical question. I think what I was trying to say is that if a person is just saying things and doesn't really care about the issues, they are less likely to actually do things to help. I think you are right in that as long as she is doing things to help, I believe that "actually caring" is irrelevant.

My initial reaction to the question "are they just saying what they think people want to hear?" is... that is the point of democracy? Do I think she's saying whatever she wants to get elected and then is going to do whatever the fuck she wants? Maybe. That is what Obama did. To me she represents maintaining the status quo, which, while not exciting and progressive, is the only alternative to AMERICAN HITLER which is just not an option at all. But I think she does have a track record of trying to help in a progressive way, as much as populist candidates can. Unfortunately a step to the progressive left isn't a REAL option. It's either "maintain status quo" or "ruin america for anyone who isn't a wealthy white male"

[skateandannoy]

I wish Mike WK would pop in to say something about the Illuminati in this thread.

[BlakeK]

Do they actually care (sorry Lindsey) about or believe in the things that they are talking about or are they just saying what they think people want to hear?

...

My question about whether or not Hillary cares about women and minorities was not a rhetorical question. I think what I was trying to say is that if a person is just saying things and doesn't really care about the issues, they are less likely to actually do things to help. I think you are right in that as long as she is doing things to help, I believe that "actually caring" is irrelevant.

My initial reaction to the question "are they just saying what they think people want to hear?" is... that is the point of democracy? Do I think she's saying whatever she wants to get elected and then is going to do whatever the fuck she wants? Maybe. That is what Obama did. To me she represents maintaining the status quo, which, while not exciting and progressive, is the only alternative to AMERICAN HITLER which is just not an option at all. But I think she does have a track record of trying to help in a progressive way, as much as populist candidates can. Unfortunately a step to the progressive left isn't a REAL option. It's either "maintain status quo" or "ruin america for anyone who isn't a wealthy white male"

Yeah I know you're right it's just been hard. Bernie Sanders was such an attractive option and had given me the same kind of hope that I felt when Obama ran in '08. I thought that he had a shot and would actually do the things he talked about doing. It's just very frustrating to have Obama disappointment bleed right into this crazy ass year where the choices are so terrible. The DNC business is just the icing on the cake. I don't think that Trump will do 99% of what he has said he will do if President. That is partly due to the fact that he has contradicted himself so many times that it would be impossible and that I think he just wants the title and is going to let his Vice President and cabinet tell him what to actually do. That is the really scary part because Mike Pence is one of the worst politicians out there and I'm sure his cabinet will be a house of horrors.

[skateandannoy]

Even if Trump only does 1% of the things he's promised it would still be a wreck. As you mentioned Pence is also a pile of garbage. The worst thing is that Trump has incited and given voice to all these vile people; validating their hate. And we're going to be stuck with the aftermath of his obviously doomed to fail candidacy for years to come.

At least with Roger Ailes gone from Fox and Murdoch's more centrist children taking the helm of the channel, I'm hopeful that it will not just be a 24 hour misinformation hate/fear/warmongering station. If we're lucky, that might quell some of the validation these people feel.

[BlakeK]

Even if Trump only does 1% of the things he's promised it would still be a wreck. As you mentioned Pence is also a pile of garbage. The worst thing is that Trump has incited and given voice to all these vile people; validating their hate. And we're going to be stuck with the aftermath of his obviously doomed to fail candidacy for years to come.

At least with Roger Ailes gone from Fox and Murdoch's more centrist children taking the helm of the channel, I'm hopeful that it will not just be a 24 hour misinformation hate/fear/warmongering station. If we're lucky, that might quell some of the validation these people feel.

It's true. Trump and the movement that's accompanied have made people feel like it's okay to be overtly racist under the guise of freedom of speech. Suddenly people think using racial slurs and anti-gay language is acceptable because they are just showing how anti-PC they are and free they are. It's really sad.

[skateandannoy]

Even if Trump only does 1% of the things he's promised it would still be a wreck. As you mentioned Pence is also a pile of garbage. The worst thing is that Trump has incited and given voice to all these vile people; validating their hate. And we're going to be stuck with the aftermath of his obviously doomed to fail candidacy for years to come.

At least with Roger Ailes gone from Fox and Murdoch's more centrist children taking the helm of the channel, I'm hopeful that it will not just be a 24 hour misinformation hate/fear/warmongering station. If we're lucky, that might quell some of the validation these people feel.

It's true. Trump and the movement that's accompanied have made people feel like it's okay to be overtly racist under the guise of freedom of speech. Suddenly people think using racial slurs and anti-gay language is acceptable because they are just showing how anti-PC they are and free they are. It's really sad.

And those same people get so bent out of shape about Black Lives Matter protesters as if their speech doesn't matter for some reason......


the worst.

[Anna Karina]

In all honesty I"m glad the vile racism and bigotry from all these people has been put out in the open so they can no longer hide it.

It's too bad most of these people are too stubborn to change.

[amanda]

I live in a state that always goes blue, so I have the luxury of voting third party if I want.  But Jill Stein would be the only choice there and Jill Stein's autism epidemic fear mongering and pandering to anti-vaxxers is too gross for me to consider it.

I might be filling in the bubble next to Clinton's name on the ballot in November but I am not going to like it and I am never ever going to be hashtag with her or whatever.  I'm just going to pretend that my vote is just for keeping Trump from being able to name a single Supreme Court justice, for keeping abortion safe and legal/possibly repealing the Hyde Amendment, and for science. 

[avivaaeelena]

Trabajando en mi español y mudarme a Puerto Rico y/o España
El plan, en serio, mi novio y yo
Chinga esto país

I just can't fucking take it anymore. We're both working on health careers so hopefully we can transplant. We're trying to be honest with ourselves if we can live somewhere that is having resource issues and possible political upheaval (seems like the straws may finally break the camels back this time). I say yes but, you know, maybe we'll go there for a year or two and see. We're both PR so it'd also be a little bit of coming home in a way also. But if not, we can get expedited Spanish residency thanks to PR citizenship (super interesting!).

The internet has really fucked political discourse up bad. The confirmation bias available is so much more extreme than it ever was before, imo, and everyone is just going in fucking circles when you argue with your shitty family about not shooting black people every week and they don't care what you have to say, and the left won't fight back in a militant, organized, thought out way so fuck it. Not saying those other places are perfect but holy shit I just can't do this place anymore (but I was saying this before trump was on the scene). And clearly we have not advanced since fucking Jim Crow and we should stop pretending. We just get the fucking pigs to do our killing and locking up for us, and permit it, and fund it, and pretend like it's not our fault. I don't know how we ever get past our entire national fucking history so I really want to just quit after being active in political work of all sorts for a long, long time. It's not a I'M GONNA MOVE TO CANADA empty shit thing after doing nothing to try to change things. It's being ground down after trying really hard, politically and personally. If I'm going to be stuck in this world and this body and this brain, it may as well not be in a country I've hated since I can remember and can't do anything to change. At least I won't feel so responsible. And hey, decolonization can be literal, right?

[pronetoaccidents]

one of the endless conspiracy theories i've heard that actually seem like there's a thread of plausibility is that trumps in cahoots with hilary.. he'll go on saying absurd things, dismantle and have the republican party implode, she slips in there, and come election night when she wins, they both meet up in an indisclosed motel room, laughing maniacally doing cocaine off hired servants backs

[jer]

one of the endless conspiracy theories i've heard that actually seem like there's a thread of plausibility is that trumps in cahoots with hilary.. he'll go on saying absurd things, dismantle and have the republican party implode, she slips in there, and come election night when she wins, they both meet up in an indisclosed motel room, laughing maniacally doing cocaine off hired servants backs

i mean, i jokingly proposed this a year ago. though i had more faith that republicans wouldn't be dumb enough to actually give him the nomination, i thought he'd run independently to split the vote. boy was i wrong.

http://pix.hijinx.nu/index.php?topic=376.msg5043#msg5043

Trump and Clinton are friends. This is fairly documented. Trump is running to make other republican candidates more vocal about how shitty they are about undocumented workers and such in a race to prove to their base that they can be just like trump, thereby guaranteeing the party doesn't get the hispanic vote that they've been claiming for two election cycles is what will get them the white house back.

Trump ultimately doesn't get the republican nod, so instead runs as a independent and splits the vote.

H. Clinton walks right in the White House front door.