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[pronetoaccidents]

i had always been interested and done a little research about tarot but it wasn't until i got a very accurate reading from a very awesome person on this board. Since then I've done a lot of digging about history, purpose, intentions, accuracy, different methods and procedures. Has anyone else had any positive/negative/etc experiences and/or feelings about tarot?

[skateandannoy]

I have friends that are really into it. I don't like the idea of it but I do like the art on the cards haha

[pronetoaccidents]

The arts tight yeah. I have a dali set..getting something inked. The idea for me is that it helps me focus on something in the present and what I need to do, what personal or subconscious factors are affecting it.and.why.. Its weird but it works. And even if its psychological, it keeps me more focused and present

[ramblinrabble]

I know tarot is high in dietary fiber, potassium, and reduces risk of diabetes and cancer

[AaronTheCabe]

Back when I sought out every religion and esoteric beliefs in search of a hidden mystery that many seemed to know but I was somehow missing, I read quite a bit on occultism and magic, which even aleister crowley admitted was more symbolism and a psychological tool to enact mental awareness and the such. Crowley owed a lot to the yogis.

Israel Ragardie of the golden dawn used the tarot as a means of Qabbalic mysticism to achieve awareness or enlightenment or what have you. Basically he describes using the tarot similarly to a person using free writing to learn about themselves psychologically. Further in and the tarrot are microcosmic symbols for the sephira of the Qaballah tree of life, which is itself meant as a microcosm for existence and the creation of mankind. Since he practiced "the middle pillar" meditating on the sephira and tarot associated with it, a person could reach brain change or something of the like. I always found it funny how the 3 pillars of tree of life [negative, positive, middle/neither] seemed like a western version of the tao [yin/yang, with middle pillar as the flowing combination of those energies]

If i remember right, Crowley used tarot for similar and also to communicate with one's own ...oh what the hell did he call it...holy guardian angel. something along those lines. remarkably judeo-christian for all the hate he got from christians but most of his stuff came from the rosicrucians who got their stuff from Solomon who basically was just doing Qabbalah.

Franz Bardon however takes these concepts to incredible psychological heights. its a shame he called it magic cause he could have easily titled his first book, 'how to increase all falculties of your mind through willpower and personal realization using western occult symbolism' except he believed in the other-wordly aspect of it all. His second book is nothing but sigils and spells to call upon angels and demons, which i guess could have psychological aspects to help but i couldn't tell you them. he only wrote two books of his designated collection, which would have been each book representing an aspect of the tarot.

lots of symbolism and representation in its history. its poetic and interesting, to me at least. But I haven't thought about it seriously in years, seemed a lot of it was western versions of Kundalini yoga and basically ways of opening up chakras [or as timothy leory called them, circuits] i find it interesting that so many different cultures over differing ideas and technology also come to this idea of energy centers along the spine. even carlos castaneda's teachings of don juan talk of "the will" coming from below the belly button, the same place as the dan tian of qigong/chinese yoga and the third chakra all of which correspond to ego/willpower

interesting to say the least

[pronetoaccidents]

thank aaron. some good stuff there.

[Aaron]

For whatever it's worth, anybody who practices Qaballah with a Q is almost definitely not practicing authentic Jewish Kabbalah.

But anyway, I've met a transpersonal psychologist who uses tarot cards in therapy, and I know Jung talked about tarot letting a person get in touch with unconscious/archetypal stuff going on in life.  Seems pretty legit to me, although unfortunately we still live in a culture that wants to call that stuff esoteric and fantastical, so it takes some mental decolonizing..

[momitsnowme]

I'll come clean, haha. I did Ryan's reading. Just like everyone else has been saying, unlike the way it is usually portrayed, it isn't about fortune telling or something. It's abut accessing your subconscious. The example I like is a magic 8 ball. How you kind of know what you want it to say and if you don't,  you know if you like the answer once you get it. But with more options. And good art.

[rory]

My partner has cat-themed tarot cards and we do that stuff sometimes, but it's definitely a very non-serious dabbling. Conceptually, I like ritual, especially the kind that can lead to some amount of self-reflection, so I guess I'm for it.

[AaronTheCabe]

For whatever it's worth, anybody who practices Qaballah with a Q is almost definitely not practicing authentic Jewish Kabbalah.

not worth much. hebrew to greek to latin to modern transliteration

its like saying Yahweh and Jehovah are two different things. hebrew doesn't have vowels, yada yadda yadda i give up

[skateandannoy]

For whatever it's worth, anybody who practices Qaballah with a Q is almost definitely not practicing authentic Jewish Kabbalah.

not worth much. hebrew to greek to latin to modern transliteration

its like saying Yahweh and Jehovah are two different things. hebrew doesn't have vowels, yada yadda yadda i give up

Other than Madonna I didn't realize anyone practiced that

[Aaron]

For whatever it's worth, anybody who practices Qaballah with a Q is almost definitely not practicing authentic Jewish Kabbalah.

not worth much. hebrew to greek to latin to modern transliteration

its like saying Yahweh and Jehovah are two different things. hebrew doesn't have vowels, yada yadda yadda i give up

Um, actually there's a lot more going on than just translation or transliteration.  Jewish Kabbalah could care less about tarot or astrology.  Golden Dawn sounds like it was basically a 19th century syncretist new age group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah#Difference_between_Jewish_and_non-Jewish_Kabbalah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah

Madonna's version of Kabbalah is also pretty new age-y and vaguely cultish btw

[AaronTheCabe]

yes yes i have read them before, along with scholar work on it

i'm not saying jewish and non jewish is the same but...um... saying that all jewish is spelled with a k and all non jewish is spelled with a q is so ridiculous i have no comment.

what about the chinese writers of chi kung and the american writers who used the correct qigong? were the chinese wrong and the american right!

hemertic qabalah under the wiki doesn't say how the hundreds of differ practices, as practices change over all religions over all times, is specifically always spelled with a Q, that is a ridiculous way to put the line in the sand as it were.  but i don't care anymnore. i read this shit ten years ago so think what you want. I DON'T GIVE A GODDAMN.

[pronetoaccidents]

i've read a bit on kaballah.. i also have some vague memories from hebrew school/internet searching about the numerology behind each letter in the hebrew alphabet.. it's pretty cool shit..

"Gematria /ɡəˈmeɪ.tri.ə/ (Greek: meaning geometry) is an Assyro-Babylonian-Greek system of code and numerology later adopted into Jewish culture that assigns numerical value to a word or phrase in the belief that words or phrases with identical numerical values bear some relation to each other or bear some relation to the number itself as it may apply to nature, a person's age, the calendar year, or the like.
Similar systems, some of which were derived from or inspired by Hebrew gematria, have been used in other languages and cultures.
The best-known example of Hebrew gematria is the word Chai ("alive"), which is composed of two letters that (using the assignments in the Mispar gadol table shown below) add up to 18. This has made 18 a "lucky number" among Jews, and gifts in multiples of 18 are very popular"
..

that sorta thing..

a little more for math geeks..

"Mathematical[edit]
A formula for finding a letter's corresponding number in Mispar Gadol is: f(x) = \left(10^{floor\left(\left(x-1\right)\div 9\right)}\right)\times\left(\left(\left(x-1\right)\ rem\ 9\right)+1\right) where x is the position of the letter in the language letters index (Regular order of letters).

Absolute value[edit]
The most common form of gematria is used in the Talmud and Midrash, and elaborately by many post-Talmudic commentators. It involves reading words and sentences as numbers, assigning numerical instead of phonetic value to each letter of the Hebrew alphabet. When read as numbers, they can be compared and contrasted with other words or phrases – cf. the Hebrew proverb נכנס יין יצא סוד (nichnas yayin yatza sod, lit. "wine entered, secret went out", i.e. "in vino veritas"). The gematric value of יין ("wine") is 70 (י=10; י=10; ן=50) and this is also the gematric value of סוד ("secret", ס=60; ו=6; ד=4)‎.[18]"

[pronetoaccidents]

but i'm veering off course..

tarot thing.. it's really cool in my deck the way they portray the hanging man.

dude usually chills like so..



but in my deck they have a bat perched upside down

[skateandannoy]

Now that's what I'm talking about

[Aaron]

i'm not saying jewish and non jewish is the same but...um... saying that all jewish is spelled with a k and all non jewish is spelled with a q is so ridiculous i have no comment.

That's why I said almost definitely.  It's a generalization coming from a lot of personal experience.  I've just never seen Kabbalah spelled with a Q in the Jewish community, meanwhile new age/magician types often spell it that way.  So I feel it's important to point out that the guy you mentioned definitely wasn't studying Kabbalah within a centuries-old oral tradition like other Kabbalists.  The importance of lineage is debatable, but really, anybody can combine any number of spiritual practices..and as a spiritual seeker you probably want to know you're working with something that has a good chance of being effective....

Anyway, that wiki link I posted mentioned that sefirot in hermetic Qabbala is different than in Jewish Kabbalah.  So to then assert that the tarot represents the sefirot is pretty far-fetched.  I mean for one thing there are more tarot cards than sefirot.  But regardless of whose sephirot you're talking about, in their own ways both sefirot and tarot are fairly complete symbolic systems of psychological states and archetypes (although I wonder whether sefirot leans more toward the metaphysical than tarot) with their own proven methods for gaining understanding..so I wonder why you have to equate them?  As systems they each have their own internal logic, and if you take the symbol out of context (which is what you do when you compare tarot to sefirot) you lose a lot of meaning.  Maybe you create new meaning, I don't know...

[momitsnowme]

Wait, Ryan, do you have the Wild Unknown tarot?? I keep seeing it around and really like the images I've seen from I but it seems really hard to learn as a beginning deck!

[pronetoaccidents]

Yes, exactly. I have that one and a dali one. I use the unknown one most though. What makes it difficult?

[momitsnowme]

Just because the pictures aren't as straightforward. They're more abstract. I've even read people say the lines going on different directions can represent different things! Check out littleredtarot.com and sign up for the mailing list. Every once in a while she sends out registration info for the forum there and people talk about the different decks.

[AaronTheCabe]

i'm not saying jewish and non jewish is the same but...um... saying that all jewish is spelled with a k and all non jewish is spelled with a q is so ridiculous i have no comment.

That's why I said almost definitely.  It's a generalization coming from a lot of personal experience.  I've just never seen Kabbalah spelled with a Q in the Jewish community, meanwhile new age/magician types often spell it that way.  So I feel it's important to point out that the guy you mentioned definitely wasn't studying Kabbalah within a centuries-old oral tradition like other Kabbalists.  The importance of lineage is debatable, but really, anybody can combine any number of spiritual practices..and as a spiritual seeker you probably want to know you're working with something that has a good chance of being effective....

Anyway, that wiki link I posted mentioned that sefirot in hermetic Qabbala is different than in Jewish Kabbalah.  So to then assert that the tarot represents the sefirot is pretty far-fetched.  I mean for one thing there are more tarot cards than sefirot.  But regardless of whose sephirot you're talking about, in their own ways both sefirot and tarot are fairly complete symbolic systems of psychological states and archetypes (although I wonder whether sefirot leans more toward the metaphysical than tarot) with their own proven methods for gaining understanding..so I wonder why you have to equate them?  As systems they each have their own internal logic, and if you take the symbol out of context (which is what you do when you compare tarot to sefirot) you lose a lot of meaning.  Maybe you create new meaning, I don't know...

's alight. I 've been stressed. I overreacted and was a jerk. Its a message board not an essay to be turned int at so and so. Less about you and more about where my mind has been lately. I left spiritual study after an experience, that , well i can't exactly describe and i'm not sure if anyone would be interested. I certainly don't want to turn anyone away from the things they are learning that brings positivity to their life.

Ryan, that fool card is pretty sweet. If i hadn't thrown away my crowley deck, i would mail it you. but i did, so i can't. but ya know. wicked art

You should enjoy it it while you can.

[skateandannoy]

This thread ended up taking off more than I expected!

[ctmelton83]

Tarot cards are about as false as Christianity!

[jer]

HOT TAKE ALERT

Somebody alert the authorities, we've got a punk in the house.