hijinx message board

General Category => General => Topic started by: manmagic on August 20, 2017, 04:59:43 PM

Title: WTF
Post by: manmagic on August 20, 2017, 04:59:43 PM
Chris (founder of PIX) is getting accused of some pretty serious stuff. Serious enough where Ghost Mice have canceled their tour.

Apparently punks really aren't that much better than anybody else. 
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: jer on August 20, 2017, 05:30:26 PM
Fucking hell.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 20, 2017, 05:31:21 PM
Quote from: manmagic on August 20, 2017, 04:59:43 PM
Chris (founder of PIX) is getting accused of some pretty serious stuff. Serious enough where Ghost Mice have canceled their tour.

Apparently punks really aren't that much better than anybody else. 
I hadn't heard anything but when I saw this I looked and couldn't find any information. Links or details?

EDIT: I had to do a lot of digging and was able to find a Facebook post from the victim. I feel like the story is buried or maybe just hasn't developed to be out there. This sucks.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: pronetoaccidents on August 21, 2017, 10:11:28 AM
yeah.. pretty crazy even though i guess it's not crazy. people can always find capacity to disappoint you (assuming there's any truth to it)
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
Man I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 21, 2017, 03:03:09 PM
Quote from: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
Man I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this.
Please share them if you wouldn't mind
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 08:14:34 PM
I really don't know if I can articulate all of them. But here are some.

Reading the screenshot surprised and disappointed me but I also can't say I'm shocked. For one thing, there are very few people in the world, sadly, that this would absolutely SHOCK me about. Like surprise me, yes, but shock me to the point of not even believing it? Not many. With the risk of making this about me, when it really shouldn't be, it's probably because I've been molested/assaulted four times, two of which were by people who were supposedly punks/feminists. I don't mean it in like a "I don't trust anyone" way...more just like my view of anyone can adapt to include this shit pretty easily because we live in a fucked up culture and people are complicated and I've witnessed that first hand.

But also because the description of the other aspects of his behavior seem pretty honest. I consider Chris a friend. His art is really important to me. He's the reason I met Jer. He drew our wedding invitations. Etc. But I've been weirded out before by his influence over people younger than him and ways he has used it. I felt weird about him encouraging people to buy shit houses in Cairo when that whole thing was happening. I don't know if he necessarily wants the kind of influence he has over kids, but he has it, and I don't know if he always uses it super responsibly, so believing he would use it in the same way in a sexual/romantic context doesn't really seem that out of line with what I've seen. I also believe he would use suicide threats as an emotional control tactic because I've seen it several times lately on Facebook from him.

As far as the molestation stuff, I saw some people comment on the thread who know the person and said it definitely happened, other people have confided similar stories to them, etc. But also, even without any other "evidence" or "witnesses" I really can't do anything other than believe the person reporting. Reporting this stuff is fucking hard. I didn't do shit about it any of the times it happened to me. I probably would have been even less likely to if it had been someone well known and liked. I figure there are a few possibilities:

1. Chris molested someone knowingly, maliciously, in which case, fuck him and how he feels about people's responses.

2. Chris molested someone either because he isn't clear on consent, he didn't understand because of his usual power differential that he has had basically his whole adult life,  his judgment was muddled by mental illness, alcohol, etc.

3. He didn't molest someone and he is the bastion of goodness the people defending him on Facebook are making him out to be. I have to believe if this were the case, though, he would understand the imperative to believe the person reporting by other people who understand the rape culture we live in.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 08:16:23 PM
So basically either way, I have to just assume the screenshot is accurate, especially until I hear what he has to say about it.

I am guessing the reality is something like the second option. People are really complicated. We live in a complicated culture. I don't think he's a bad person. I think he probably understands that it's pretty fucked up and probably feels like shit. I expect and hope he'll address it all.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 08:20:19 PM
But also that fucking thread on Facebook. People calling the victim manipulative, lying, etc. Can you imagine what it would be like to be someone with an unreported sexual assault reading that? Fucking of course nobody reports this shit.

I had dreams last night about being roofied and raped. I have very mixed feelings about the extent to which trigger warnings are used, but Jesus. The situation itself is shitty enough but reading people being absolute assholes sucks.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: Anna Karina on August 21, 2017, 09:11:04 PM
edit: nevermind, finally found it
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: rory on August 21, 2017, 10:53:36 PM
I believe it. I know the person who brought this to light, though not well, and it really seems to me that there would be no earthly reason to lie. I mean, really, honestly, do people think that it ever goes well for someone to out a popular abuser? Anyone I've known that has tried to make some traction for accountability for someone with more social capital then themselves has gone down one seriously atrocious road - all after being victimized in the first place. It's like living in a bizarro world (especially in DIY/punk circles) where everyone talks a big game about accountability and sticking up for victims - except of course in this circumstance where this victim is a liar and this person accused is untouchable.

Considering Chris' power, and considering his pretty public openness about struggling with depression and mental heath, I do worry for him. I worry that in being a rash and unstable person with a wide reach like he does, what could for one person just be a step in getting to a place where accountability is possible - internalizing it and making a big to-do about being an awful person rotten to the core - will just get fueled by friends and acquaintances who will stick up for and support that. He will lean into the pity thing, because that's what people do, but I wonder how many people around him will tell him that he isn't an inherently and specifically evil person, and cannot take that easy way out of accountability. One needs to know that they fucked up in a way that isn't wholly characteristic of their personhood or being.  That doesn't mean that what they did is even remotely excusable or okay. But if this person's main request for accountability is seeking therapy (which, let's be honest here, is a pretty damn mild request), dude has to believe that he can change and be better.

His position of power and influence greatly plays into why something like this would happen, may have happened other times, and without intervention could happen again. If people really care about Chris, they need to hold him to the requests of the victim.

I've been thinking a lot about accountability and restorative justice, and we just see almost no good examples it's devastating. It's hard to know what to do.


This shit is fucked. I really hope that the victim finds some sort of peace. I do also hope that for Chris, in a way that is hard to talk about.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 22, 2017, 09:37:11 PM
Quotethis shit is fucked. I really hope that the victim finds some sort of peace. I do also hope that for Chris, in a way that is hard to talk about.

This
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 07:04:19 AM
Well even with my rant about it not being a huge surprise, I'm having a harder time than I expected with his new post today. Him admitting it, comments coming out about there being at least four people who have come forward...ugh. I did some digging and people were making claims on Tumblr in 2014 and 2015. A couple of those name Ryan from Defiance, OH as well, as does a comment on the post today, so I don't even know, man. So fucked up.

I said it wouldn't surprise me, but to this extent?? And possibly Ryan too? Regardless, the silence of Defiance OH, Toby Foster, and everyone else in the Bloomington pix scene is deafening to me today.

I'm angry right now...angry that I just sent Chris money recently in the midst of him emotionally manipulating people, angry I've let him stay at my home, angry this now will taint the memories from pix fest and everything else, angry I can't share his music with my kids in the same way now, angry that I again feel like there is essentially no safe place in punk for women (which I thought pix was the answer to). I don't know. Ugh.

I'm glad he's going to therapy. Part of me is chicken shit to actually comment on Facebook and is worried what he'll think if he reads this because I don't want to burn bridges as a friend. But then I think fuck you...I probably have those feelings because of the same manipulative one-way "friendship" tactics he uses on everyone. Ugh.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: manmagic on August 23, 2017, 04:14:19 PM
Since I never got the full story on Paul B was this all part of the reason he left pix and the Bloomington scene? From comments of his on FB he seems pretty adiment about knowing about all this and having taken a stand several years back, but no one being on his side when he tried to do something about it.

Or are the two things completely unrelated?
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 23, 2017, 05:17:28 PM
Quote from: manmagic on August 23, 2017, 04:14:19 PM
Since I never got the full story on Paul B was this all part of the reason he left pix and the Bloomington scene? From comments of his on FB he seems pretty adiment about knowing about all this and having taken a stand several years back, but no one being on his side when he tried to do something about it.

Or are the two things completely unrelated?
I was wondering the exact same thing because he's accusing others of knowing and not saying anything which would mean that he would have known for years as well. Did he ever say anything? Did anyone ever notice that Chris was almost exclusively interested in younger girls? What kind of red flags were there? I need to do some research because I'm behind as far as what's been said and done
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:23:02 PM
I don't want to break any confidentiality but I've been touch with Paul as well as two people who I trust who are in that scene. It seems like him being critical of the manipulative behavior of Chris and many others is part of why he left that community. It seems like he and others were aware of the shit Ryan has been accused of and that Chris raised red flags and has manipulative tendencies. It seems like the allegations of sexual abuse by Chris are new though.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:24:56 PM
One of the people I spoke with does not think the two are related but admits that many people have been aware of Chris being creepy and manipulative.

Another person I talked to left the scene because it is all a mess and was convinced by Paul that people were acting shitty, which now seems to be coming to light.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:25:33 PM
However I think there is more to the story of the falling out.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
I've been talking to everyone I trust with any insight and feel like a creep but I also feel betrayed and want to know the extent of how shitty people have been.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 23, 2017, 05:40:39 PM
Quote from: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:26:20 PM
I've been talking to everyone I trust with any insight and feel like a creep but I also feel betrayed and want to know the extent of how shitty people have been.
Yeah this must be really hard for since you know Chris personally. I would feel betrayed too
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: Anna Karina on August 23, 2017, 06:15:03 PM
I'm still trying to process everything so I don't really have anything to add. I hope things get better for everyone involved and hopefully Chris doesn't just go into hiding without seeking help.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 06:32:19 PM
I mean, it's not like we're bffs. He and his music and that scene are/were just really important to me and I liked thinking of him as a friend. I hope he acknowledges all of this in an actually productive way and makes some amends
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: None Genuine on August 23, 2017, 06:53:49 PM
Goddamnit, this is a gut punch.

I haven't been around these boards for a few years, but this label, and his bands, and subsequently, these boards were super important in influencing my own and so many folks' political and relational outlooks on life.

Quote from: momitsnowme on August 21, 2017, 08:14:34 PM
For one thing, there are very few people in the world, sadly, that this would absolutely SHOCK me about. Like surprise me, yes, but shock me to the point of not even believing it? Not many.

I think this is a pretty sad, but important and accurate way that a lot of us feel when shit like this happens. It's not unbelievable. As far as silver linings go, I hope this whole ordeal is an example of the fact that even folks you'd never imagine doing something like this can do something like this. Also, I hope it's a lesson in victim blaming/defending the accused. Obviously that shouldn't be the focal point of any of the discussion around this, but it's something that struck me with the way this played out.

Title: Re: WTF
Post by: ismybadluckrunningout on August 23, 2017, 07:33:04 PM
So. Throwaway account basically. I've been around for... awhile. I always heard passing stories of the weird shit Chris would get up to and also found his choices in age of girls to be really strange, but it never hit this level. Unfortunately, that kind of informs my not-surprised reaction to hearing this. A blow, sure, and I'm not saying I knew something and didn't speak up, it all just kind of flows together. I wish it weren't true but I 100% believe it, not that my opinion matters much.

Quote from: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 05:23:02 PM
I don't want to break any confidentiality but I've been touch with Paul as well as two people who I trust who are in that scene. It seems like him being critical of the manipulative behavior of Chris and many others is part of why he left that community. It seems like he and others were aware of the shit Ryan has been accused of and that Chris raised red flags and has manipulative tendencies. It seems like the allegations of sexual abuse by Chris are new though.


I was always getting the information that Paul had sort of jumped into throwing accusations around in all directions and it caused some friction (including from at least one person who he was supposedly defending but who was not interested in his approach or help), but it makes as much sense that it was legitimate because people are pretty crappy.

So, related, here's my big ask - can someone, publicly or privately, please tell me exactly what the Ryan story is, given that I've heard all sorts of allusions from multiple people and the fact that I have been his close friend for over a decade and we've had a romantic relationship? I know that doesn't necessitate me knowing anything or give me any sort of privilege to it, but hell, I'd like to know if I'm missing something. I just haven't been out in public much lately and could never get a direct story even from actual friends who were none too pleased with him.


Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 08:01:22 PM
All I've seen is a few Tumblr posts from a few years ago with not much information. I'd like to hear more as well. I'm sorry you're coming across all this
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 23, 2017, 10:41:12 PM
And then Paul replying that it has been "known for years" when people were posting about that Tumblr on Facebook
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 24, 2017, 04:31:59 PM
I've been doing some talking and digging, just to update. I don't want to say much about it but I feel much better about the allegations against Ryan.

If anyone needs it, check out Eric Ayotte's Facebook post. It was exactly what I needed to hear.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: lindsey on August 24, 2017, 08:25:01 PM
I texted my best male friend that was involved with me in the DIY scene in NC and hosted ghost mice and other pix shows with me back in the day, and he said "Ah. Well, you travel and tour and don't drink but everyone around you does... It leaves a lot of space open and sexual assault is never something I remember his lyrics covering" I just.... what the fucking hell is wrong with men
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: skateandannoy on August 24, 2017, 08:29:56 PM
I don't really have much to add. I've seen AJJ's comments as well as some others on the matter. I've seen on tumblr some stuff criticizing AJJ going back a few years too though. Punk has always had it's problematic aspects but PIX always felt like such a rejection of all the stuff that sucks about punk. I'm so angry and I'm sorry for all the victims. I too hope they find some peace.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: rory on August 26, 2017, 03:00:43 PM
Reading more of the accounts and seeing such a blatant pattern, I feel kind of fucked up about my previous statements, but I'm going to leave them here. It's part of processing. Since I'm processing some (minor comparatively but thematically similar) things about my former bandmate and am taking him through accountability, I think when I wrote that I was in a position to think really intensely about restorative justice.

It's fucked that I think that I'm glad that I caught my bandmate in the throws of his lies and shitty behavior when I did, so that he didn't get worse and affect more people further away. I'm fucked up about having to wrangle supposed good men and keep them in line.

There's a lot to think about, but my heart is just aching for all these goddamn women that no one listened to for years.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: GrownFolk on August 29, 2017, 03:23:46 PM
Am I the only one that still wants to hear the new Ghost Mice album?  I pre-ordered before any of this came out and I'm hoping he makes good on the orders that were placed.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 29, 2017, 04:16:37 PM
I really liked one of the preview songs. But I canceled my order and got a refund from band camp.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 29, 2017, 04:16:55 PM
Even if it does come out I won't really be able to enjoy listening to it.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 29, 2017, 05:35:39 PM
I saw an article that had Hannah's response and while I know this must be hard for her, I found it pretty shitty. I don't know if she's revised her stance and should probably research it.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 30, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
I wasn't thrilled with it, even though I think she has good intentions. However that asshole that keeps talking about her kid pisses me the hell off
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: jer on August 30, 2017, 04:35:34 PM
That idiot attacking her kid also used it as an excuse to promote his shit band, which I'm sure the victims really appreciate.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: momitsnowme on August 30, 2017, 04:47:38 PM
I saw that. So gross
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on August 30, 2017, 06:21:11 PM
Quote from: momitsnowme on August 30, 2017, 03:45:26 PM
I wasn't thrilled with it, even though I think she has good intentions. However that asshole that keeps talking about her kid pisses me the hell off
I haven't seen it but that's fucked up if someone is talking about her child
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: skateandannoy on August 30, 2017, 07:01:08 PM
Saw Kimya Dawson's response where she also basically said she was unsurprised and mentioned not being happy with Chris' business practices and hasn't been affiliated with the label for years.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: pronetoaccidents on September 01, 2017, 06:18:06 PM
As far as sad and shitty news one of the guys from dear landlord is up on murder charges after selling dope to someone who overdosed. Supposedly he's the "Chris clavin of heroin" according to people on facebook. Whatever the fuck that means. Pretty sad for him and the victims family
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on September 02, 2017, 05:48:50 AM
Quote from: pronetoaccidents on September 01, 2017, 06:18:06 PM
As far as sad and shitty news one of the guys from dear landlord is up on murder charges after selling dope to someone who overdosed. Supposedly he's the "Chris clavin of heroin" according to people on facebook. Whatever the fuck that means. Pretty sad for him and the victims family
Yeah I don't know what's that means either but that sucks. I read the google document where people have shared their stories and my first thought was that Chris is the Bill Cosby of folk punk.

I wish Kimya Dawson would have said something earlier. I understand that a lot of people are/were scared because of Chris's social status but Dawson became much more well known than Chris as time went on. I know hindsight is 20/20 and all and I'm not wanting to sound critical of her this all just sucks so much. I really wish there would have been an intervention earlier so he could've gotten help earlier but at least he's doing that now (hopefully) and the victims can start working through it now too. I would think having Chris coming to their towns now and then would be a huge trigger previously and it would suck to know that your abuser is still out seemingly unchecked.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: manmagic on September 02, 2017, 09:36:36 AM
Quote from: BlakeK on September 02, 2017, 05:48:50 AM
Quote from: pronetoaccidents on September 01, 2017, 06:18:06 PM
As far as sad and shitty news one of the guys from dear landlord is up on murder charges after selling dope to someone who overdosed. Supposedly he's the "Chris clavin of heroin" according to people on facebook. Whatever the fuck that means. Pretty sad for him and the victims family
Yeah I don't know what's that means either but that sucks. I read the google document where people have shared their stories and my first thought was that Chris is the Bill Cosby of folk punk.

I wish Kimya Dawson would have said something earlier. I understand that a lot of people are/were scared because of Chris's social status but Dawson became much more well known than Chris as time went on. I know hindsight is 20/20 and all and I'm not wanting to sound critical of her this all just sucks so much. I really wish there would have been an intervention earlier so he could've gotten help earlier but at least he's doing that now (hopefully) and the victims can start working through it now too. I would think having Chris coming to their towns now and then would be a huge trigger previously and it would suck to know that your abuser is still out seemingly unchecked.

I'm still confused, didn't Paul say something earlier and got ostracized from the community because of it? Not that that happening to Paul means Kimya shouldn't have also said something, but I spent a few years now thinking Paul was an awful person for some vague unknown reason and now I feel pretty awful knowing that a large part of that may have been me just taking faith in the wrong people and believing them when they said he fucked up.

Basically a week or so later and I still feel horrible about this. I was just starting to come to terms with the PWR BTTM situation and now I get to hate more of my hero's.

PS: Not trying to make this all about me, just trying to make sense of it all.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: ramblinrabble on September 02, 2017, 01:22:12 PM
From my experiences and what I've gathered, it's both.  Paul is kind of an awful person, but he also called this stuff out ahead of time.  His being awful is unrelated.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: jer on September 02, 2017, 05:18:38 PM
I remember Paul having a falling out but I didn't remember him saying this stuff specifically, at least not online or whatever. If he was calling it out I imagine it was more likely in Bloomington, in person, specifically before left, and good on him if this is true.

But from what I gather there was more to that falling out. But it's all speculation on my part, and my memory is poor.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: rory on September 03, 2017, 03:31:11 PM
From what I remember about Paul stuff, I thought it was someone else (someone who also used to post on this board) who had moved to Bloomington and had quote unquote bad consent with a partner. People in Bloomington didn't handle it head on and Paul tried to and it got messy. That person eventually moved from Bloomington and so did Paul. This person in question had nowhere near the social capital of Chris but was friends with that whole scene obviously.

But I could have just ended up getting some sort of weird side story that is unrelated? No idea. This was many years ago.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: amanda on September 03, 2017, 04:17:48 PM
Didn't Paul also try to accuse Eric Ayotte of abusing his partner and that wound up being a totally unfounded accusation?
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: DanOSullivan on September 04, 2017, 11:54:23 AM
Super bummed out about all this.

I used to regular the forums years ago before the time when all the data got wiped or whatever.

Chris, Plan-it-X and the whole scene had a massive influence on me as a kid. I learned a lot from the scene, about the value of community, DIY and respect for others (and animals). Now in my late 20s I would hardly call myself punk any more but I still believe in all that stuff very strongly and follow a lot of these bands.

To find out that individuals in the scene were engaged in this kind of stuff is extremely disheartening. I never lived anywhere near Bloomington so I didn't know any of the gossip or all that stuff. I just saved up money for the CDs and went to shows whenever Ghost Mice came to the UK. Even reading this thread and finding out about all the infighting with Paul, Eric, Kimya, Spoonboy and Chris is in itself a major bummer.

I guess you end up putting your heroes on some kind of pedestal when it turns out they are just as shitty (or in this case shitter) than everyone else.

Hope the victim can find a way through all this to something better! I hope Chris can find a way out of all this and find a new path.

(what is next? Propagandhi funnelling money to an abattoir?  :()



Title: Re: WTF
Post by: pascaloo on September 04, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
Yeah Amanda, that's what I've heard too.
The Paul drama and what's happening with Chris shouldn't be related.

Sorry, I don't really want to say more on the internet. I don't know much more than you and I don't really want to share my thoughts about all this publicly. All that stuff is making me feel paranoid, not that I've done anything wrong, but internet and facebook (I'm still not on Facebook and probably never will) really scares me. The guy pushing on Hannah really made me sick ;  I don't want to get involved in this same kind of shit.

Peace
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: ismybadluckrunningout on September 06, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
Quote from: amanda on September 03, 2017, 04:17:48 PM
Didn't Paul also try to accuse Eric Ayotte of abusing his partner and that wound up being a totally unfounded accusation?

This was my understanding, yes.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: jer on September 06, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
Quote
unfounded accusation?

Yeah, I do actually remember this. From what I remember, it was "unfounded" because the partner was denying it was happening apparently, but paul was saying it was happening? something like that. I don't know man.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: Anna Karina on September 06, 2017, 08:22:49 PM
Bottom line, this is the pits.
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: BlakeK on September 07, 2017, 05:41:42 AM
I'm not sure if the victim who first posted the allegations is the same person I'm thinking of in the google doc but one of the victims said that they decided to come forward in large part due to the Trump "grab em" tape. I then wondered that if Trump wouldn't have run for President, would this have come out? It also is really disappointing and crazy to think that Chris essentially did the types of things Trump bragged about having done. It just sucks because it just seems as I get older and interact with people more that there aren't a whole lot of people who don't have a very dark side to them.

Title: Re: WTF
Post by: Courtney on September 17, 2017, 06:24:25 PM
I recognized one of the women's accounts as being that of an old casual friend. I was skeeved out that Chris was dating, yet again, someone far younger than him, but figured she was an adult, seemed happy, and maybe I was being too uptight. To now find out that he put her through horrible emotional, verbal, and physical abuse is sickening.

I should've risked looking like a prudish busybody. I shouldn't have shut up when people here laughed at me for saying Chris used his influence on young fans to their detriment and his benefit. There are so many people saying they're not surprised, but so few people who felt powerful enough to stand their ground regarding his manipulative behavior. I don't know. I've got a lot of feelings about this.